Curse

Thanas · Jul 29, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeviGarrett

/signed

Drops are crapola in general. Money was not suppost to be hard to get in this game according to ANet

Post where you read this. Since I've never seen it written.

Red Sonya · Jul 29, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I'm all in favor of nerfs and lowering drops of items and reducing the income from 10k an hour to what it should be a few k an hour if that. I'm sure it hit the EBAYERS in the bud when they did that. haha

Mainly I don't see what the "big hurry" is to get to a certain amount of plat, got all the time in the world and too many people want things "NOW" and not work for it or earn it. Want a "free ride" so to speak. Put your time into the game and you'll get it. Whine about it and most likely you'll get nothing but "cheese". hehe

If you don't want to work for it, think you should have 100K within a days play, for the most part you can forget it. The devs have changed the rules of the money income for a reason. Learn to live with them or quit. Makes no nevermind to me.

I wonder how many used the "cheat" in Diablo 2 to get the best of the best within a matter of a few minutes. What's the point of even buying the game if you're not going to play by the rules of it? So you can be some uber smaktard? We have enough of them already, don't need an overload of them for sure, so curbing their income is a sure fire way of stopping a lot of them from ever reaching that status.

Game on GW's DEVS you're doing a fine job, nerf some more, make em earn what they get, make em play for days, weeks, months on end to get that magic goal of an item. That's the way it should be.

Thanas · Jul 29, 2005, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Red I believe you are right that a lot of farmers want things immediately. Impatience seems to be rife among that crowd. However Guild Wars will implement some sort of farming system to keep those that have finished the game entertained. I believe the nerfing is in place at the moment to try and control the economy.

Rirobuge · Jul 29, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

/signed

I need to get money for sup runes and armor etc.. and with the nerfs it seems impossible for me to earn the money to buy the monk runes since thye are getting so high. I still need 4...

ComMan · Jul 29, 2005, 05:53 PM // 17:53

/signed.

It's not that I want things immediatly. It's just that I don't want to get FOUR PILES OF GLITTERING DUST from a level 28 Smite Crawler. I don't want to solo a dozen trolls and get their 10-20 clean staffs. I have spent 200 hours on this game and guess how many Superior Runes I have unlocked? Ready for this? ZERO.

I've gotten to the point where soloing is the only way I can earn skill points in less than 10 hours, and I've still never had more than 20k. I don't get max damage weapons, I don't get runes, I don't even get skill points anymore. What reward is there for playing this way?

Dax · Jul 29, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

You're right, and that's why I decided to inform him of posts contradicting his statement. Someone's got to do it.

Well, I read all the posts, went back and read previous farming comments....hell even logged on for a bit and farmed, and I stand by my statments (which I'm not sure you saw after you misread my post).

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

I'd have to say this post did exactly what it was supposed to do, it certainly got the devs attention, and Gaile posted in it herself letting us know that they've nothing against an honest farmer and that we should wait for future updates to see if their ways of going against botters have improved as not to affect farming to this extent.

She also said something to the effect she may listen but they are not always going to do what you want or something along those lines. You know they already have your money....they aren't counting on monthly subscription fees. They have to concerned with the longevity of the game...though most people will probably buy the expansion pack.

It funny how people complained before how things were getting out of hand, and now the tables are turned. Personally I think rare items should be freekin hard to get...so I'm not shedding any tears if ya don't get what you want all the time.

Loviatar · Jul 29, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

/signed.

It's not that I want things immediatly. It's just that I don't want to get FOUR PILES OF GLITTERING DUST from a level 28 Smite Crawler. I don't want to solo a dozen trolls and get their 10-20 clean staffs. I have spent 200 hours on this game and guess how many Superior Runes I have unlocked? Ready for this? ZERO.

I've gotten to the point where soloing is the only way I can earn skill points in less than 10 hours, and I've still never had more than 20k. I don't get max damage weapons, I don't get runes, I don't even get skill points anymore. What reward is there for playing this way?

you are doing something wrong somewhere

i just got to the riverside area and have never sold anything over 600 gold (silver dye) never bought anything expensive (black dye or any dye for example) but have the top AL armor for the area needed runes (major not superior vigor and all other minor needed) and items like a 4/-1 vamp bowstring that dropped among others

not to mention 270 plat in storage picked up in small change on missions and exploring.

go by yourself at the highest level you can truly solo

1 hench equals only half the drops 3 hench gives you only 1/4

it is best to get all of a lower level run than a small part of a higher level run and that part may be cheap junk on top if it all

edit

i have also unlocke 7 superior runes in the last 3 weeks along with i dont know how many major and minor

i just turn them in to the trader and dont worry about the cheap price i get

some did get above 2k though

i get about 1-3 runes per run

Raiden Mcloud · Jul 29, 2005, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

Alright, I don't often put up petitions like this. But you see, for a while there I could put up with it. Now though, when every last spot I've ever found in the game has been nerfed to the point of 2-3 drops per run, well that's just the straw that broke my back, so to speak.

Alright so what do we know, well we know that I'm really pissed off for one. Secondly we know that they've gone and nerfed every single farming spot in the game that I could find, I've spent my entire day trying to find a new decent spot, even one where I could make say, 10k per hour or something, and I'm still OUT OF LUCK. No jades anywhere drop a damn thing, the gates of kryta enemies, no matter where they are or what they are, when from dropping several mediocre things that you could very SLOWLY make gold on to dropping NOTHING (almost literally, I kill 30 enemies, I get 4 drops.), the griffons drop one or two blue items...maybe, the random gold outside fishermans haven? Now considered an exploit. The UW/FoW? Yeah, if you want to spend every hour for a week that your country has down there just so you might get a max damage storm bow to sell for 30k, be my guest. A droknar runner will make more than you do in the UW/FoW, in less time than you'd ever thought.

Farming, buying/selling/giving away things...it's all that was left for me in this game. I enjoy testing builds but I can't do that because of attribute refunds, I can't get anymore money because every spot I can find at all has been nerfed to the point that it's impossible to almost find a drop period.

My question is why, why is it necessary? Droknar runners can make money, PvP players can make money, but normal PvE players who actually use the money, make it the slowest. If you're not rich already you can't expect to be able to buy much anything worthwhile anymore, because unless you get extremely rich you'll be fighting for the last bit of money for your last bit of dye.

Now that every spot in the game has been nerfed except for the lost strongbox (which isn't even a farming spot...and will maybe get you 6k in 3 hours or something...), you just can't make money. I ENJOYED working towards a goal or set of money, I enjoyed needing 100k for something and then farming solo until I reached that goal, I was motivated and it's what I did in most of my free time...because it's all that's left. But now that's been taken away from me as well. Even if they add these two new "zones" to the game, it won't matter. Go through 'em once or twice, or even 10 times...and no big deal, fun over. Then if you tried to farm there, nerf bat for sure.

I would rather see my farming spots back than the two new zones, I enjoy the feeling of being alone out there just me and the mobs making money towards a goal, and now that I can't do that...period, I need to start this petition thing.

Basically saying that---WE WANT OUR FARMING SPOTS BACK. It doesn't HURT anyone, being able to make money at a decent rate won't matter now that you've got so many gold sinks in the game. Hell how was I able to spend 200k in a day? I bought a new set of 60k armor, some dye, helped some players out, and now I've not a chance in hell to get any of it back. Some people enjoy doing PvP in those arenas and tombs over and over again, some of us enjoy working out in the zones by ourselves farming stuff. PvP people get the "here you go, you want it you have it" bat, we get the nerf bat. What's up with that? I'm tired of being bought out by droknar runners every day, lets get some farming back!

/signed

/signed

Ashika · Jul 29, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Game on GW's DEVS you're doing a fine job, nerf some more, make em earn what they get, make em play for days, weeks, months on end to get that magic goal of an item. That's the way it should be.

Could you be more specific? There's a huge difference between a few days and a few months. I feel that playing about 2hrs per day should guarantee me the means to purchase the FoW armor in one month. This is 1 month of farming, not 1 month from pre-searing to purchase. Anything longer than that and I am not interested. It becomes a waste of my time instead of a means of relaxation and enjoyment (which is why I buy games in the first place!!!).

Now, let's think about this for a second. Not everyone can play 2hrs everyday. Certainly, the casual player could not do this. That player is looking at a possible 3 months or more to be guaranteed the means to afford the armor.

*Insert Nerf Bat*

Now your average casual player is guaranteed to never have the means to afford that armor. As for myself, I really do not foresee collecting some +100 ecto in any reasonable time. I farm, but I refuse to farm the UW 100-200 times just to buy the armor. THAT goes beyond excessive farming.

Thanas, please stay away from economics. You really don't understand it. Your error this time is your failure to differentiate between the real world supply and GW. Supply will increase as prices increase, but only in the real world. GW supply is a constant. Ecto priced at 1k drops no more often then ecto priced at 100k.

I fear that 18k per Ecto may not be the peak. As more and more Drok runners and HoH champs purchase ecto whilst the drop rate remains unchanged, we will continue to experience a shortage. Prices will rise until it reaches the point where supply roughly equals demand. It will be a long time before prices begin to drop due to the effects of the various gold sinks (which are an extreme pittance).

Here's a little more to chew on. If drop rates of ecto (yes, this is primarily ecto-based...but that is what seems to be the current focus) remain unchanged, how many of the current ecto farmers do you think will leave/find something else to do? This will spark a drastic drop in the supply rate of ecto propagating an ever-extended era of over-priced ecto.

And to all of you who are pro-nerfing. Are you truly trying to tell us that it is simultaneously wrong for one to gain 1,000,000 gold (in "a few months") all the while claiming that current drop rates are suitable enough to permit one to purchase armor that costs more than twice the maximum stash amount in a reasonable period of time (read: in a reasonable period of time to purchase the 'ultimate' GW novelty item)?

Perhaps your definition of "reasonable" went missing along with all the fun that went with farming.

LagginTimes · Jul 30, 2005, 12:17 AM // 00:17

/signed

the bloodthirst · Jul 30, 2005, 12:51 AM // 00:51

We are trying to farm to keep up with the economy. so how can you say the problem is farmers. sure you can say its cause of all the ebayers. GET OVER IT! every mmo is like that. The economy is bad becase the game generates more money then it gets rid of. i dont know if anyone saw the Auction house thread but, i think that would help out a lot. it would make an item you are looking for easier to find and the economy would regulate. I only say it would regulate because ppl woudlnt be selling items for insane prices. their items would never sell if they did.

Red Sonya · Jul 30, 2005, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Powergamer, Casual, I don't care whatever, any game that you can get just about anything and everything in a months time isn't worth the purchase price or the time to play it when it comes to an online MMO. If you want instant satisfaction I suggest playing Diablo 2 or Neverwinter Nights or Morrowind, those have about a months worth of value. I expect an MMO to take quite a bit of time to accomplish goals. And personally I don't need the 15k armor just for "vanitys" sake. Some may want it, have to have it, but, that's not my concern or care. I make plenty of money when I play for the time spent aquiring it. It surely doesn't need to be "easier" to get money and I'm happy with the way the system is now. I know I will get months, maybe even "years" of enjoyment out of this game because I will put my "time" into it to get to those goals. I'm certainly glad everything can't be aquired in one months time. If you can't take the time to grind, then you might as well leave it now.

nboi · Jul 30, 2005, 01:43 AM // 01:43

/Signed

But does it matter ? its always been like this. Its the nature of MMORPGs to make a mmorpg game harder and harder as the time goes by .... more nerfs etc. Even if the development of the game has stopped along time ago hehe.

Sad but true.

hidden_agenda · Jul 30, 2005, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

Good for you. However I am para-phrasing what GW reps said. Also I think you will find GW is not based in the real world, so real world economics don't always work. Do you feel like a man now you've flexed your virtual muscles?

BTW excess supply will occur when prices are too high. Thus you find yourself with increasing stock. Prices eventually fall. Petrol is a poor example too, since for most people it is a necessity, so they have to buy it, high price or not i.e. it has a low elastisity. Ecto and shards are however very different. Not only because they aren't real, but because within the game environment you can wait to buy them. There is no real consequnce to you not buyng them i.e they have a high elastisity.

how clever of you to para-phrase what GW reps say but ignore what Gaile said in a earlier post? how quickly you re-tread your steps about farming once Gaile said that they have nothing against farmers? how marvelous it is that because your economic theories aren't quite logical, you resort to irrelevant personal attacks.

as for your statements on GW economy not comparable with that of the real world, allow me to quote from the fansite friday (today) interview with Gaile:

'The system is programmed to reflect and support true “supply and demand” and yet, at times, that probably isn’t the case quite yet.'

That's right -- just like your local gas station has to support true "supply and demand." [Aside: why is GW not quite completely reflective of supply and demand? Well, because the traders sell and buy at unrealistic ratios.]

Once again -- nerfing drops has caused raise prices of the end-game items, unbalances the field for the late comers and make the game frustrating to many people -- so, Anet, please fix this.

Btw, if you are a believer in what Thanas has stated -- then you should look forward to getting a max dmg sword with +15 >50, +30 health for <20k this weekend. It's been a couple of weeks since the last nerf. So prices should settle down and drop on these items, according to Thanas -- since no one has enough gold to pay 100k for that...

Thanas: your theories are really nice and I wish they're true, but everytime I log into GW, the trade channel tells me otherwise. Would you mind letting me know what you're smoking? It must be really good...

Commodore_Mcawesome · Jul 30, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

-

Yes, the game is beatable without farming excessively. And by beatable, I mean you can complete the storyline. But some of us have some motivation to go beyond that, and to acquire more things - I mean, that's really all that we PvE'ers have left in the game to do once the fetch-and-carry quests are all done. So, maybe we want our 15k armor. Is that a crime? Did they put it in the game just to taunt us? So we get items, try and be the best. Yeah I guess we're powergamers for not giving up on the game after the Ring of Fire.

15 per piece x 5 pieces = 75k
~120 ectoplasm or whatever at 10k each(below reg price, BTW) = 1200k
Total cost = 1,275,000 gold
^^
***posted earlier by YellowMarker161***
--------------------------------------------------
So let's assume that we're treating the acquirement of these items as a sort of quest as many of us do, now that we've beaten all the others. What was this again? Approximately fifty-three straight days of farming to finish this quest? Maybe, then, we're not complaining because we're all powergamers who can't handle a little bit of a grind, and maybe, just maybe, we're saying that these quests are taking a little too long to finish. I know, I know, it's supposed to be difficult to get. But you know, when 100k is godly to you, 1.27 million is freaking impossible.

You're right on one thing though, you could get years of "enjoyment" out of this game.

edit: This isn't even taking in to account the other items that we try to get, I mean is it too much powergaming to want to get items from someone other than a collector? And USEFUL items at that? Tack on any number of days just to find a semi-useful version of the one your after. I could farm for hours and get nothing or one or two "while hexed" items.

scatman · Jul 30, 2005, 02:43 AM // 02:43

/signed

I am a rather new player and I do alot of farming so I can afford nothing but the best for all my characters. The farming that I do seems to treat me fairly well but I only have 175 Plat right now, Yes ive spent close to 200, but you guys are making that sound like chump change.

I would love to get better drops out of farming. Signed

ComMan · Jul 30, 2005, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

go by yourself at the highest level you can truly solo

I do solo. I've tried running all around Forge and outside Ember Light Camp and I've never gotten anything worthwhile. Since I don't have a PvE monk, I can't go solo the Underworld, but even if I could I'm willing to bet I'd get 20 piles of glittering dust for my efforts.

silent333x2 · Jul 30, 2005, 04:57 AM // 04:57

/signed I'm only left with one spot that can only make my mo/w ~20k an hour. Bring back my flesh gulems so I can make over 100k an hour again

Simon Felix · Jul 30, 2005, 05:22 AM // 05:22

ill sign, but...
ya ide like to see the old drop rates back but people are making it sound like its impossible to make money now...

you can make about 10k + rare drops outside augrey farming griffons and minotuar... (one hour of farming)

or if you dont like killing mobs there are chests all over the place you can run to.

Its not impossible to make money its just alittle bit more of a challenge

Thanas · Jul 30, 2005, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidden_agenda

how clever of you to para-phrase what GW reps say but ignore what Gaile said in a earlier post? how quickly you re-tread your steps about farming once Gaile said that they have nothing against farmers? how marvelous it is that because your economic theories aren't quite logical, you resort to irrelevant personal attacks.

as for your statements on GW economy not comparable with that of the real world, allow me to quote from the fansite friday (today) interview with Gaile:

'The system is programmed to reflect and support true “supply and demand” and yet, at times, that probably isn’t the case quite yet.'

That's right -- just like your local gas station has to support true "supply and demand." [Aside: why is GW not quite completely reflective of supply and demand? Well, because the traders sell and buy at unrealistic ratios.]

Once again -- nerfing drops has caused raise prices of the end-game items, unbalances the field for the late comers and make the game frustrating to many people -- so, Anet, please fix this.

Btw, if you are a believer in what Thanas has stated -- then you should look forward to getting a max dmg sword with +15 >50, +30 health for <20k this weekend. It's been a couple of weeks since the last nerf. So prices should settle down and drop on these items, according to Thanas -- since no one has enough gold to pay 100k for that...

Thanas: your theories are really nice and I wish they're true, but everytime I log into GW, the trade channel tells me otherwise. Would you mind letting me know what you're smoking? It must be really good...

I am reffering to Gaile when I say GW rep. Thats the one I'm para-phrasing. Also I'd like to point out I didn't backstep at all with regards to my opinions. I still don't agree with farming. I never will like it, but Gaile claims it will be part of the game. I've always stood by the fact that Anet are against excessive farming. And to be fair I think you have over simplified the economic theories. They aren't as straightfoward as you are saying. I did also point out that it was possible real world economics didn't apply, I didn't say they definetly didn't. The economy will settle in time. However there are still people trying to farm and there are still probably people with vast pools of gold. As I pointed out you can't make a good argument using gas, due to its low elasticity i.e people will continue buying it regardless of price since it is a necessity. Shards and ecto should have a high elasticity. In time excess supply will dictate the market. That is to say prices will have become to high, since income has been reduced. This holds true in the supply and demand model.